Инициатор проекта «Подмостовье» Александр Горенюк рассказал о проблемах на первых этапах реконструкции всеми заброшенного Деволановского спуска.

Новая дорога, хипстерские кафе и галереи. Александр Горенюк вместе с другими урбанистами решили вернуть к жизни когда-то бурлящую улицу Одессы и придумали проект «Подмостовье».

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— О проекте «Подмостовье» известно уже многим в Одессе. Уже полгода точно он на слуху. Особенно о нем заговорили после весеннего субботника. На каком сейчас этапе разработка этого проекта?

— Сейчас этап регистрации и подачи документов. Весной мы уже начинали выстраивать какие-то архитектурные планы, но в последнее время проект затормозился.

— Почему?

— В процессе субботника я познакомился хорошо с первым вице-мэром Анатолием Орловским по телефону. Он тогда поднял все муниципальные службы, чтобы организовать вывоз мусора, помощь сотрудников ЖКСов и другое. Это было клево!

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— Помню, вы тогда много мусора вывезли.

— Да, мы вывезли 148 мешков мусора оттуда. После этого я презентовал проект Орловскому, ему очень понравилось. Он позвал Вугельмана (вице-мэр Одессы — Ред.), а Вугельман — Радулова (начальник департамента экономического развития — Ред.). И вроде бы все загорелись, все классно. Мы договорились сразу созвать круглый стол собственников. Потому что одна из самых главных проблем — это структура собственности на спуске. Собственники объектов — это жильцы домов, что расположены на Деволановском. Дело в том, что в кадастре этой информации нет или она вся утеряна. Даже после того, как мы провели субботник в сквере, за которым мы ухаживали, появилась надпись баллоном «ЧАСТНАЯ СОБСТВЕННОСТЬ», типа не подходите!

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— Ого…

— Да, и я с уважением отношусь к частной собственности, поэтому мы все пытаемся решить в рамках правового поля. Так вот, мы начали двигаться, и я перезвонил через две недели в мэрию. Встречу переносили несколько раз. Потом наступило молчание, я ничего не мог сделать. Я зря время не терял: находил волонтеров-архитекторов, ходил в Центр инженерных изысканий. Мы крепко пообщались с ними. Они делают топографическую съемку и геологические исследования, в общем, все, что нужно для инженерии проекта. Потом снова позвонил в мэрию, но мне там дали понять, что сейчас не до меня.

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— Почему так?  

— Мне не то, чтобы обидно стало, просто без движения со стороны мэрии придется тяжко. Я решил не отчаиваться и уже лично начал общался с бизнесменами. Корпоративно заинтересованные лица задавали мне вопросы: «Что нужно делать? Давайте двигаться, мы готовы вкладывать деньги!». Мы долго стояли на месте, начали проводить «Гладилку» внезапно. Опять пошел инфоповод, и город подогрелся. Меня пригласили на Black sea summit и после него Вугельман назначил мне встречу уже на днях, чтобы делать уже что-то к лету. Моим предложением было установить какое-то простое мобильное решение в виде бокспарка, видела?

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— Нет.

Могу показать. На месте этих развалин можно построить бокспарк, но я не навязываю конкретно такое решение. Нужно сделать хороший анализ, но плюсы этого проекта в следующем — он мобильный и дешевый. Каждый отдельный контейнер стоит около 17-и тысяч гривен. Каждый отдельный гараж — это отдельная ячейка для бизнеса. Они оптимальны по количеству торговой площади. Их легко монтировать, и есть спрос.

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— Хорошо, а куда их ставить? Что вы хотели сделать со старыми зданиями на спуске? Хотели снести?

— Мы дружим с украинской компанией Pixelated Realities и с их помощью мы хотели, перед тем как снести, полностью снять все здания, чтобы у нас был архитектурный архив по тем старинным зданиям, что находились здесь. Пока с этими зданиями, кроме того, что снести, ничего нельзя сделать.

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— Это большой проект.

— Да, нужно провести глубокое исследование, чтобы понимать, чего хочет большинство жителей города. С одной стороны, нам, молодым, которые ездили в Европу и насмотрелись, хочется там видеть бары, кластер и все дела. Но я узнавал и мнения других людей — кто-то хочет видеть там театр. И это имеет место быть, такой маленький камерный театр. Поэтому мы должны опросить людей по большому количеству параметров: структуре занятости населения, цен на недвижимость и так далее. Вторая важная проблема, хотя, я бы ее поставил на первое место — это сложность участка. Потому что под Деволановским спуском на глубине десяти метров проходят подземные воды, да и в общем есть серьезная проблема с канализацией, ведь спуск наклонен на семь градусов, и получается, что вся канализация стекает по этой улице. Любой дождь затопит бизнес, например, сервера и розетки на первом этаже. Люди просто развернутся и уйдут. Поэтому проект очень дорогой в том смысле, что нужно укреплять канализацию.

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— Если я не ошибаюсь, коллекторы на Деволановском спуске уже выработали свой срок.

— Возможно, но там еще нужно сделать инженерно-строительную экспертизу мостов. Это хорошо, что мост Коцебу ремонтируют, но у нас есть еще два моста. Так вот, если мы там сделаем дорогу, то полностью законсервируем проблему под ними, которая будет усугубляться, и забитая канализация будет о себе постоянно давать знать. То есть, нам нужно отремонтировать коллектор. Мы нашли сейчас инвестора в ходе уже редких импульсов по «Подмостовью». Инвестор готов браться за всю улицу. Мы, как общественная организация «Подмостовье», выступаем модераторами в этой форме общественных отношений между инвестором, властью и общественностью.

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— А кто инвестор?

— Пока не буду называть. Могу сказать, что это иностранные инвестиции. Но сейчас главное — обсудить с Вугельманом дальнейший план развития. Ведь мы не могли долго встретиться из-за того, что Одесса готовилась к Евровидению.

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— Вернемся к самому проекту. Все-таки все здания снесете или часть оставите?

— Смотри, в планах у нас приготовить «Архитектурный флешмоб». Мы дадим исходные данные студентам-архитекторам и волонтерам-архитекторам. Они будут стимулировать разного рода идеи, что можно было бы сделать на спуске. Думаем вынести это за рамки Одессы, а чтобы поощрить участников призами хотим сюда привлечь Connections и еще несколько международных фондов.

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— Кто уже прямо сейчас готов инвестировать?

— Это частный корпоративный бизнес.

— Например, разные магазины?

— Нет, смотри, у нас есть инвестор под строительство. Он вкладывает деньги в реконструкцию спуска. Он строит на спуске новые здания, допустим, дорогу и полностью все реконструирует. Площадь, которую он реконструирует, сдает в аренду. Еще есть люди, которые хотят арендовать площади и основать галереи, это художники. Еще кафе, коворкинг и в таком духе.

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— А сколько денег понадобится?

— Это невозможно предсказать. Чтобы понять, сколько денег нужно, сначала мы должны сделать строительную экспертизу, заключение о техническом состоянии зданий, экспертную оценку о техническом состоянии инженерных коммуникаций, мостов и топографическую съемку.

— Сколько времени на это понадобится? До лета справитесь?

— Понадобится порядка четырех месяцев. Думаю, что в последнее время проблема с канализацией стала еще острее. В Одессе выпадает рекордное количество осадков, возможно, решение проблемы с канализацией нужно делать не только для «Подмостовья», а нужно рассмотреть и состояние Канатной, Греческой и других улиц. Это займет больше времени, с другой стороны, я же не буду этот проект разрабатывать самостоятельно, я и не готов брать на себя такую ответственность. Мы хотим пригласить одного из ста лучших специалистов в области проектирования кластеров и ревитализации такого рода. Чтобы мы подумали, как это наиболее гибким образом можно реализовать. Есть вариант построить сразу новую улицу, а он может не сработать по разным причинам. Можно запустить в несколько этапов, поиграться с бокспарком, посмотрим, как будут отзываться пользователи. В общем — разработать мобильные решения, которые нам позволят потестить. Ведь это важно, тем более, что находится в центре города.

— Кстати, а в мире есть подобные улицы?

— Да, конечно. Например, Шордич в Лондоне — это колыбель неформального искусства в Британии. Там нарисованы граффити, и они на таких улицах являются декорацией. Они дополняют и рассказывают новые истории. Понятно, что есть история ХХ века, а вот историю 90-х годов и «нулевых» никакие стены не рассказывают.

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Еще есть район Санкт-Паули в Гамбурге. Тоже креативный район, там можно найти все. Еще есть в Мельбурне, тоже насыщен кафе и магазинчиками. Суть этого всего — активный фасад в архитектуре. Активный фасад — это когда на первом этаже находятся торговые площади. Для «Подмостовья» важно не проектировать огромные площади на первых этажах. Это позволит запустить там огромные гранатоподобные заведения. Они пошлы и чуждые здравому смыслу человека в 21-м веке. Так вот, там должны быть помещения маленькие по площади,  но в большом количестве. Есть такая хорошая вещь, называется Стокгольмская шкала оценивания потенциальной активности фасада. В соответствии с ней на каждые сто метров должно быть определенное количество точек входа. И, допустим, десять точек входа на 100 метров — это означает активный фасад. Есть фасады дружелюбные, глухие и т.д. Вот, например, если построить здание, на него сделать две точки входа и в каждом из них будет по 600 метров, то это будет неэффективно, потому что у нас не будет концентрации торговли высокой, а не будет высокой концентрации торговли — не будет разнообразия. Люди хотят разнообразия — им скучно.

— Появится много мест, куда одесситы приедут на машинах, а что с парковками?

— Это часть анализа. Для того, чтобы решить, какую транспортную функцию будет выполнять эта улица, нужно сделать, в лучшем случае, транспортную модель для города, а в худшем — хотя бы минимальный транспортный анализ ближайших участков и узнать, как этот участок влияет на параллельные или перпендикулярные потоки. Потому что с одной стороны это прикольно будет выглядеть пешеходной улицей, а с другой стороны — она реально находится под тремя мостами, и представьте ее в среду в два часа дня. Да и автомобили пока что являются частью урбантрафика.

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Фото: Сергей Ляшонок

— Но сейчас их там нет.

— Но есть большой запрос на транзит. Потому, что Польская загружена постоянно, и благодаря пуску движения на Деволановском можно разгрузить потоки. Это если Польскую сделать односторонней, а встречное движение разрешить по Деволановскому спуску, допустим, с транзитным проездом, но без права остановки. Только сделать разрешение на разгрузку и погрузку товара в ночное время суток, например, или высадку-посадку пассажиров до пяти минут. Чтобы машины там не стояли. Вот как есть, и как может выглядеть.

Я считаю, что этот проект важен не только для Одессы, но и для Украины. У нас очень сильный отток мозгов. Люди уезжают массово в Польшу. У нас 1 миллион 400 тысяч человек официально трудоустроены за прошлый год. Проблема в том, что эти мозги — это человеческий капитал, который формируется в определенных условиях, если мы эти условия не создаем, то люди уезжают за границу, где эти условия создают.  Мы сейчас должны с помощью этих условий убедить людей остаться в нашей стране и вывести ее на международный уровень.

Беседовала Дарья Сметанко.


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278 КОММЕНТАРИИ

  1. Проблема транспорта на Польском спуске видна воочию. Постоянная пробка. Решить эту проблему достаточно не сложно через реконструкцию Деволановского спуска: транспорт в направлении порта идет по нему (одностороннее движение), от порта по Польскому спуску вверх (также одностороннее движение). Думаю, что это надо учитывать при реконструкции.

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  155. Hmm it looks like your site ate my first comment (it was extremely long) so I guess I'll just sum it up what I submitted and say, I'm thoroughly enjoying your blog. I too am an aspiring blog writer but I'm still new to the whole thing. Do you have any tips and hints for inexperienced blog writers? I'd really appreciate it.

  156. Please let me know if you're looking for a article author for your site. You have some really great articles and I believe I would be a good asset. If you ever want to take some of the load off, I'd love to write some articles for your blog in exchange for a link back to mine. Please blast me an e-mail if interested. Kudos!

  157. Do you have a spam issue on this site; I also am a blogger, and I was curious about your situation; we have developed some nice practices and we are looking to exchange techniques with others, why not shoot me an e-mail if interested.

  158. Appreciating the time and energy you put into your blog and in depth information you present. It's great to come across a blog every once in a while that isn't the same old rehashed information. Great read! I've saved your site and I'm including your RSS feeds to my Google account.

  159. Have you ever thought about publishing an e-book or guest authoring on other websites? I have a blog based on the same subjects you discuss and would really like to have you share some stories/information. I know my visitors would enjoy your work. If you're even remotely interested, feel free to shoot me an email.

  160. Good day! Would you mind if I share your blog with my twitter group? There's a lot of folks that I think would really appreciate your content. Please let me know. Thank you

  161. I don't know if it's just me or if perhaps everybody else encountering problems with your website. It looks like some of the written text within your content are running off the screen. Can someone else please provide feedback and let me know if this is happening to them as well? This may be a problem with my internet browser because I've had this happen before. Many thanks

  162. Generally I do not learn post on blogs, but I wish to say that this write-up very compelled me to try and do it! Your writing style has been amazed me. Thanks, very great article.

  163. Howdy! I understand this is somewhat off-topic however I needed to ask. Does running a well-established blog such as yours require a lot of work? I'm completely new to running a blog but I do write in my journal on a daily basis. I'd like to start a blog so I will be able to share my own experience and feelings online. Please let me know if you have any kind of suggestions or tips for brand new aspiring bloggers. Appreciate it!

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